I work in one of these very large bureaucratic organizations.
Recently I needed help of a personal nature. Essentially I asked to get a leave policy waived for personal reasons that I thought were reasonable.
It's not so much that I was told no that was frustrating. I can handle being told no. Perhaps my request was not as reasonable as I thought or there were extenuating circumstances above my level that I was not aware of.
It was the way in which I was dealt with. Not a single person ever took any responsibility for telling me no. I was sympathized with plenty, but nobody every admitted that they had actually made a decision at all.
At first I began to go up the chain of command, until I got a series of the exact same types of responses and gave up. I suspect that had I reached the top of the entire organization my results would have been the same. All policy all the way up.
I work in a place where, day-to-day, no consequential decisions are made by anybody at all at any level, including myself.
I hear you brother. That PTO thing they describe as a wonderful benefit is really kind of a mirage because they don't have to give it to you except if they don't want to. I'd rather just have a defined number of vacation days even if it's fewer. A person who can't put down his tools when they need to is really a just slave whatever their job title is.
I came from the era of personal responsibility and more importantly, accountability.
I was also in the Navy and during my stint there, because I'd fallen asleep during mid-watch, got UCMJ'd that same week. Busted 2 ranks for a month. (I was a student in 'C' school and pulling *any* watch after studying was detrimental)
Then, later working as a team lead for an engineering group, I tried holding individual developers accountable for their *really bad* code which broke builds, poisoned deliveries and set back timelines.
But, not so fast Mr. Team Lead!
We don't do that here. You must _encourage them_ -- be supportive. Show them why it's important... blah, blah, blah.
And so we sink into mediocrity. Glad I left! I went back into the hardware world where at least for that glorious 5 years, those working in hardware and the hardware itself was immune to the corporate Koolaid.
Yes, this is exactly what I've been thinking for a while.
Any system can work with good men (i.e. monarchy would be great with an enlightened leader) and no system at all canworjk with bad men (i.e. a democracy where the bad and the good have the same amount of say, eventually there are good men going with the bad men to simply get things done).
"The processes will be amended, procedures updated, and then business will continue as usual as the system slowly grinds itself to dust"..... watching this play out across industry & institutions is incredibly frustrating & infuriating when people justify it and make excuses. There are some hard truths that need to be confronted by the faction that is currently trying to push the vision of 90s liberalism, mlk America, or all the gains & momentum in pushing past the ww2 consensus, will be smothered in a blind allegiance to the gods of equality, blank slate & magic dirt. We do have to keep pushing, at a time when the default has been to let ConInc lull the masses back to grilling & sports ball.
Well said. I have worked in a large organization and seen this process at work. Many supervisors don't want to discipline a worker no matter what, and so things getting done ends up falling on the good will of people who do try to work hard and do the right thing. But that type of behavior is actively discouraged by leadership who allows people to get away with screwing around, when they're able to then earn the same pay. So why not screw around, is what most people will end up thinking, or many at least.
This problem goes much deeper than taking personal responsibility. The way us moderns understand personal responsibility is mostly in relation to other humans, ie how we make others do our bidding without hurting their feelings and not get raked over the coals for it. Personal feelings are the thin edge of the wedge that cleaves solid fundamentals into smaller pieces to the benefit of the corrosive acid of the collective mindset. Then it’s all down hill from here. Ayn Rand lays it all out in plain language in her novel Atlas Shrugged.
Good point. I kept thinking of my family and the way we delegate responsibility to the kids. If we expect someone to perform a job they need to have the power to change things, consequences if they don't, and rewards if they do.
Often though parents miss one of those three elements.
For me it's the ability and freedom to accomplish the mission. So if tasked with mowing the lawn, making sure they can physically run the mower, that gas is available, etc. The more capable the kid, the more this also means not meddling in their affairs.
Sooooo.... Loss statements, sworn statements for the MPs and CID, an article 15 (which requires its own paperwork which itself needs to be pushed through legal)... Do you see the point? Yes, good NCOs and officers can get this stuff done in a couple of weeks, but its a corporate HR system. Thats the point. And thats not even talking about chaptering somebody for PT or height and weight, or general misbehavior; and the counselings paper trail that needs to be made (and perfectly!) to get those done 🙄.
Contrast that with how a serious offense was taken care of in, say, WWI or the 1800s. You're not wrong, and I was being hyperbolic (only slightly, and not at all for a lot of situations) but it is absurd on its face.
I work in one of these very large bureaucratic organizations.
Recently I needed help of a personal nature. Essentially I asked to get a leave policy waived for personal reasons that I thought were reasonable.
It's not so much that I was told no that was frustrating. I can handle being told no. Perhaps my request was not as reasonable as I thought or there were extenuating circumstances above my level that I was not aware of.
It was the way in which I was dealt with. Not a single person ever took any responsibility for telling me no. I was sympathized with plenty, but nobody every admitted that they had actually made a decision at all.
At first I began to go up the chain of command, until I got a series of the exact same types of responses and gave up. I suspect that had I reached the top of the entire organization my results would have been the same. All policy all the way up.
I work in a place where, day-to-day, no consequential decisions are made by anybody at all at any level, including myself.
I hear you brother. That PTO thing they describe as a wonderful benefit is really kind of a mirage because they don't have to give it to you except if they don't want to. I'd rather just have a defined number of vacation days even if it's fewer. A person who can't put down his tools when they need to is really a just slave whatever their job title is.
I came from the era of personal responsibility and more importantly, accountability.
I was also in the Navy and during my stint there, because I'd fallen asleep during mid-watch, got UCMJ'd that same week. Busted 2 ranks for a month. (I was a student in 'C' school and pulling *any* watch after studying was detrimental)
Then, later working as a team lead for an engineering group, I tried holding individual developers accountable for their *really bad* code which broke builds, poisoned deliveries and set back timelines.
But, not so fast Mr. Team Lead!
We don't do that here. You must _encourage them_ -- be supportive. Show them why it's important... blah, blah, blah.
And so we sink into mediocrity. Glad I left! I went back into the hardware world where at least for that glorious 5 years, those working in hardware and the hardware itself was immune to the corporate Koolaid.
Yes, this is exactly what I've been thinking for a while.
Any system can work with good men (i.e. monarchy would be great with an enlightened leader) and no system at all canworjk with bad men (i.e. a democracy where the bad and the good have the same amount of say, eventually there are good men going with the bad men to simply get things done).
Touch a hot stove, burn your hand. Kill a hundred people because of incompetence, receive a sternly worded letter and loss of 5 vacation days.
As a teacher I always found it very odd that we would be held accountable for things that neither admin nor are students were held accountable for.
"The processes will be amended, procedures updated, and then business will continue as usual as the system slowly grinds itself to dust"..... watching this play out across industry & institutions is incredibly frustrating & infuriating when people justify it and make excuses. There are some hard truths that need to be confronted by the faction that is currently trying to push the vision of 90s liberalism, mlk America, or all the gains & momentum in pushing past the ww2 consensus, will be smothered in a blind allegiance to the gods of equality, blank slate & magic dirt. We do have to keep pushing, at a time when the default has been to let ConInc lull the masses back to grilling & sports ball.
Outstanding and spot on about the military. What a change from when I went in to when I retired.
Well said. I have worked in a large organization and seen this process at work. Many supervisors don't want to discipline a worker no matter what, and so things getting done ends up falling on the good will of people who do try to work hard and do the right thing. But that type of behavior is actively discouraged by leadership who allows people to get away with screwing around, when they're able to then earn the same pay. So why not screw around, is what most people will end up thinking, or many at least.
This problem goes much deeper than taking personal responsibility. The way us moderns understand personal responsibility is mostly in relation to other humans, ie how we make others do our bidding without hurting their feelings and not get raked over the coals for it. Personal feelings are the thin edge of the wedge that cleaves solid fundamentals into smaller pieces to the benefit of the corrosive acid of the collective mindset. Then it’s all down hill from here. Ayn Rand lays it all out in plain language in her novel Atlas Shrugged.
What is the value of 'competence' when there's no trust in the leadership.
When the enterprise owes the worker nothing, the worker should act the same.
As for 'customers' who wish to purchase 'competence' at the going rate, since their either a boss or a cog as well, they're owed nothing as well.
The focus on 'competence' an d 'merit' is designed to get workers to forget the abuse of the last 50 years.
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1887037017361420749?s=46&t=U7laPY1hHEa798qtlcpDpA
Is that real? There’s something really unsettling about that vid.
Reading: I thought it was real. Why not? Seems like an angry rant.
Good point. I kept thinking of my family and the way we delegate responsibility to the kids. If we expect someone to perform a job they need to have the power to change things, consequences if they don't, and rewards if they do.
Often though parents miss one of those three elements.
What do you mean by the power to change things?
For me it's the ability and freedom to accomplish the mission. So if tasked with mowing the lawn, making sure they can physically run the mower, that gas is available, etc. The more capable the kid, the more this also means not meddling in their affairs.
There is one and only one person charged with controling the airspace around Washington National, and they failed spectacularly.
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1887037017361420749?s=46&t=U7laPY1hHEa798qtlcpDpA
Bro it doesn’t take months to discipline a soldier for losing sensitive equipment.
I have literally never seen a UCMJ take less than 6 weeks. Even that is absurd and evidence of the complete disarray of the military.
Nonetheless it does not take months to discipline a soldier for the basic stuff you outline.
Discipline how?
Making the troop pay for it and extra duty come to mind.
Sooooo.... Loss statements, sworn statements for the MPs and CID, an article 15 (which requires its own paperwork which itself needs to be pushed through legal)... Do you see the point? Yes, good NCOs and officers can get this stuff done in a couple of weeks, but its a corporate HR system. Thats the point. And thats not even talking about chaptering somebody for PT or height and weight, or general misbehavior; and the counselings paper trail that needs to be made (and perfectly!) to get those done 🙄.
Contrast that with how a serious offense was taken care of in, say, WWI or the 1800s. You're not wrong, and I was being hyperbolic (only slightly, and not at all for a lot of situations) but it is absurd on its face.
Korean War and integration did a number on local control